Why Zheleznyakova Lost and How Vologdin Survived: Breaking Down the Russians’ Fights at UFC 273

Hello everyone! You're watching the weekly discussion on the mma-tv.com portal. Hello everyone, my name is Julia Mirey, and today we'll discuss the recent UFC tournament that took place on April nineteenth in Canada. Russian fighter Mark Vologdin, who is a prominent MMA Series graduate, made his highly anticipated debut there. His opponent was American John Castaneda, and after three full rounds, a majority draw was declared by the judges. We'll analyze this fight with MMA Union judge Artur Grakov. Hi, Artur. Hi, hi. Well, first, I want to talk about the fight in general. I really liked it. It was even quite invigorating for me; it gave me a lot of energy. And I get the impression that the UFC and Paramount are looking for fighters like Mark right now. Because it seems that for him, the victory itself isn't as important as showing a beautiful fight and truly pleasing the audience. And I think he fits right in, in that sense. What did you think of the fight?

I think Mark got a bit lucky there. He managed to win that first round. It was quite surprising, of course, that one of the judges actually scored it nine ten for the opponent. Nine ten. Well, that's a strange decision, of course, at this level. He lost the second round.

Hold on a second, let's take a look at this; why do you believe that he should have received the majority of the votes in this round?

Well, because, first of all, there was constant pressure, he had very aggressive pressure, there were accurate strikes and clean hits, right, while his opponent didn't really have any accurate hits, so he, apparently, there are some fighters who don't really turn on in the first round or, well, sort of take a while... get into the fight, warm up, I don't know, maybe they're psychologically set that way. As for the Russian fighter, he immediately charged forward with high intensity applying relentless pressure from the very start and landing several very precise strikes. In short, he clearly won that round. He also got a takedown there, left him, didn't go for the finish. Then that strike to the groin could have thrown the fighter off his game, but despite that, he kept on applying pressure. Basically, he won the first round unconditionally. Because striking, aggressive pressure, and grappling are what's evaluated. Vologdin, he took the first round. So there are no questions at all. He lost the entire second round of the fight quite cleanly; I mean, the other guy clearly and decisively outstruck him. As for the groin hit, it was accidental and wasn't intentional. It was a sharp inside low kick, and apparently, maybe just glancingly, he slightly caught his cup. And because that very first strike was incredibly painful, he felt it so strongly in the moment; there wasn't such a focused hit, and you could clearly see he hit the inner thigh area. Ultimately, he was quite lucky that a point was actually taken away from his opponent for the foul. A point was taken, so it was nine nine. So his opponent ended up winning that specific round; he really should have won it ten to nine, but because he had a point taken away, it ended up nine nine. In the third round, he was incredibly lucky they didn't score it ten eight, because there was a specific moment when he was just barely surviving out there. He was barely surviving and hanging on by a thread, and I honestly think that just one or two more clean, heavy hits and it would have definitely been a knockout or a TKO. So, in my professional opinion, he was extremely lucky to walk away from that fight with a draw. It is just, quite honestly, a case of absolutely incredible luck that he managed to survive until the final bell. In the third round he simply outfought him, and the fact that he went right to the center of the ring at the very end and said let's scrap, well, that was more like a real performance. I didn't see any danger for his opponent. Vologin did well, good for him. You can see he's very technical and full of energy, but he simply lacked professional experience. He lacked that inner confidence, the pressure of the moment, and the roar of the crowd. Overall, he's a great fighter, of course. Yeah, well done, he fought well. But if we look at the sporting perspective, and how we truly evaluate the outcome of this fight, then he was very lucky in this match. He was very lucky.

Artur, why does the scorecard of the middle judge, Laura, differ so much from the others? For example, you mentioned the first round. It's unclear why she came up with those numbers. And indeed, I don't understand either why she's the only one. Everyone scored it twenty-eight, she scored it twenty-nine twenty-seven. I'm curious to know on what basis did she, for example, give Castaneda the first round?

Well, that is a question you would need to ask her. There are many professional judges who frequently award rounds to opponents for no clear or apparent reason. To the point where a person just got distracted, you know? I mean, the person just got distracted, lost in thought. So, those kinds of lapses can happen too. And basically, I will tell you this right now, that opening first round wasn't exactly what you would call a one hundred percent lock for Vologdin. I mean, it is really the kind of round where if you decide to give it away, absolutely no one is going to say you are being totally incompetent. So, one could easily think that she saw something else, perhaps noticing a few more highly accurate and effective strikes coming from Castaneda during that time. There are some clear rounds where you cannot say the opponent was the winner. But here, you could assume that from her angle, some hits were much more visible. There are certain fights where you think to yourself, oh for goodness sake, how could you miss that? How, I mean, there is just nothing at all to go on here. And in this round, I think you could say that she just had a better view from her angle. So there's that. She basically went ahead and scored the next two rounds in exactly the same way as all the other judges sitting ringside did. Because of that, there is really absolutely nothing about the outcome of this particular fight that is even worth arguing over at this point. The only thing I will say about the whole situation is that the guy was incredibly lucky to walk away with a draw in the end. That is really all there is to say about it.

So the opponent's mistake, that second low blow, it decided the final result of the match.

Yeah, and he was quite fortunate they even recognized it as a significant low blow. But in reality, there wasn't a significant blow to the groin. It was actually an inside low kick. Because the initial impact was apparently quite hard, he was already feeling extremely sensitive there. It probably just grazed his cup, and he exaggerated the movement to make it look like he was in pain. Because that first strike was very deliberate. That is exactly why the referee took a point away immediately on the second one. Because it is all up to the personal judgment and discretion of the officials. For instance, there are certain strikes where a referee might say it was not particularly significant, or perhaps it was just accidental and unintentional. Basically, it's the ref's call. But that first hit was so significant that any second strike would be... even if it's not that hard, results in a point deduction. And that is the full story of how this fight went. Now, here is the question for you to consider.

If we look at the strike count, like the stats we see on the screens, those stats don't always match the judges' scorecards. For example, one fighter might have ninety strikes while the other has sixty. Yet they give the round to the one with sixty.

It depends on significant strikes, meaning hits that actually cause some damage. Like a cut, or when a person gets wobbled. I mean, you can just throw a bunch of small, pitter-patter punches that don't really do any lasting harm or damage to your opponent. These types of strikes don't change the fighter's natural state or their rhythm at all. Then, on the other hand, there are what we call significant strikes—those are the hard, powerful shots that fundamentally change the opponent's condition. And the judges value those kinds of heavy strikes much more when they are scoring the round. I believe a fight is viewed through at least three entirely different lenses. A coach sees it through his eyes. The judge, or referee rather, sees it his way, and the passionate fans see it through theirs. And everyone has a significantly different understanding of the fight. And that is exactly why these heated disagreements happen so often. Like, for example, why did you decide to give it to him? Why, when one fighter seemingly won the very end of the round, is it still given to the other by a unanimous decision? It appeared that you lost the first two rounds, but you finished the fight very strong indeed. And that's it, and it gives off the distinct impression that you won the fight. Fans, they don't even really know the criteria for judging a fight at all. That's why they're quite sometimes left in total confusion. And also many professional coaches don't even know either. how to judge a fight. And athletes don't know. There are so many different cases. Especially when guys come up with very foolish questions. Why? Like, why? You are in this sport twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week and you don't even know the basic rules. Why? So, that is why I always... strongly advise them to attend seminars too, for example, judging ones, well, at the very least for their own personal benefit, so they can understand what the specific evaluation criteria are.

Could you list the evaluation criteria, if it's not too long, like, literally in bullet points?

Powerful significant strikes, effective grappling, and dominant wrestling skills. And also, we must consider aggressive pressure as well. That is to say, first of all, significant strikes are carefully evaluated by the judges. Then we look at effective grappling – that is specifically when there are some really good attempts to perform a submission, such as a joint lock or a dangerous choke hold. Furthermore, we must account for the technical aspects of wrestling and how it influences the overall control of the fight. To put it more clearly, wrestling is about transitions and takedowns. And if everything is already virtually identical in all parameters, resulting in an absolutely even fight, then we evaluate the level of aggressive pressure being applied. That is, when a person... takes the center of the octagon or the ring. When it's an even fight, it is better to maintain control of the center of the octagon. This is because judges are still human beings after all. They can see that the person is under pressure. And in any case, they will have a preference This applies to that person, to that dedicated athlete who consistently leads a very aggressive fight. It often happens, of course, when the one being pressured manages to land some good strikes, but in actual fact, it happens very rarely in a real match. This is because when you are under constant pressure, it is very difficult to throw quality strikes and land them. You must understand that retreating and defending is always much harder than being the one who is attacking. creating pressure, because you have psychological superiority at that moment. As we know, having psychological superiority always gives you extra physical strength. Even in training, guys train and they breathe very well, but when they go to actual competitions, they run out of breath. So, why does this happen? Because they are psychologically anxious, their blood vessels constrict, oxygen doesn't flow properly, and that's why many people don't breathe. They get very tired. But give him two hours in training. He'll train for two hours without a break. Because he doesn't have any psychological pressure.

When you mentioned those referee seminars that athletes can attend, I immediately recalled Alexander Volkov's interview after his last fight, where he seemed to be on the ground the whole time, just defending against his opponent's wrestling. Then in the interview he said, "I simply read the rules, so even though I was on the bottom, I was landing strikes, and that's why I won." Although many people argued, even Russian fans, that, well, finally a Brazilian was robbed in favor of a Russian.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right now, by the way, with the new rules, yeah, specifically regarding the athlete who is on the bottom, and he's actively working from below, yeah, landing strikes, because, well, for example, hitting with those sharp elbows from the bottom. You have to realize that those are also powerful strikes, and they cause significant damage. And it often happens that an athlete saves himself by using a takedown. Meaning he, for example, took a lot of damage while standing, right? And he went for a shot, just took his opponent down and lay on top of him, and he's resting. And the guy on the bottom can't get up. And he's not working. The guy on top isn't working, but the guy on the bottom is landing strikes. Of course, preference will be given to the one who's striking, even though he's on the bottom.

You mentioned earlier that judges are also human. And they might develop a personal preference for one of the fighters if he is constantly dominating the match. But what if, like Mark, for example, he gets into a real brawl, puts on a beautiful fight, and let's say he shows off? Does that behavior trigger a preference from the judges?

Well, not for me, for example. And I believe that for many judges, it doesn't either. Because judges evaluate effectiveness specifically. You see, the kind of show he was putting on is actually very good for Dana White and the organization. It is great for increasing views and improving ratings, because almost everything we do in this business is directly tied to our overall viewership. You know how it is, someone saves a kitten, and they get a fight. He helps an old lady across the street, and they give him a fight. Everyone's interested to see who this guy is. Who is this guy who helped the old lady across the street, such a nice guy? Well, I'm just joking, but for judges, no, for judges, well, at least it shouldn't be a preference for things like strikes off the cage or rolling strikes, round-offs, back handsprings, or flips. So, you see, right, effectiveness, they evaluate effectiveness. Well, normal, reasonable judges, that is. Perhaps there are some different organizations or individual judges out there who follow their own specific criteria. But according to the official MMA Union criteria we use, the rules do not state that we give preference to a more beautiful or aesthetic strike over one that is effective but ugly.

How are you feeling? Share your emotions.

I feel okay. Satisfactorily fine. Of course, I was upset after the loss. But I try not to be too hard on myself, and to maintain a positive outlook, because you can't change anything now. Fortunately, there are no injuries at all after the fight. I mean, I did take a lot of hits, of course. But I heal just like a dog, as you can clearly see. I mean, right after the fight my nose was like this, seriously, all bruised up, my ears were bruised too, and my lips were absolutely huge. And now, as it turns out, almost everything has completely healed, and only a small bruise is left.

Yeah, it has actually only been a couple of days.

Yeah, two days have passed. But I heal very quickly. Plus, again, I have a developed technique. I'm a former boxer, I know how to treat bruises and contusions. I have my favorites in that regard. First is Lioton. If we're talking about a Russian manufacturer, I love Lioton.

It seems like you're a bit upset, but overall you're in good shape, as far as I can tell. Your mood is upbeat.

I was very, very upset. And, of course, I even cried a little after the fight. But I'm just trying to accept this loss with a cool head. Of course, I was very upset because, first of all, I earned much less money than expected. And it's not even from the standpoint of simply wanting more money, but just to cover my basic expenses, because the training camp costs were quite high. So I had, roughly speaking, two full camps to pay for. Just thrown in the trash, you could say, because my first camp was before the November fight, the fight was canceled, I earned nothing, and I ended up deep in the red. And America, as everyone knows, is not a cheap country. And it turns out that I only got the show money now. Instead of both show and win money. And I ended up making practically no money at all, so I'm frustrated and disappointed about that. That's how it is. And, of course, this had a significant impact on me, and it will probably affect my future, because now my record isn't ten and two, it's ten and three. I value my professional career so much, I'm passionate about my career, I truly love what I do, and I was deeply upset. But I realize there's simply no point in beating myself up over it, as it won't do any good for me. I just need to accept it and move on.

But has your official UFC contract ended, have you completed all four of those fights, or is it still ongoing?

My new management team officially signed me to a new contract for four fights. And the first fight was supposed to be in November, but that was when I suffered a cut. As I understand it, because the cut was my fault, the doctors pulled me from that fight. And this is the second fight on the contract. In fact, I definitely have two more fights left on the contract.

Now listen, your recent fights have been a bit like a pattern of loss-win, loss-win, so the next one really should be a solid win, at least in theory. At least, that is what I'm hoping for.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah.

Well, all things considered, do you honestly think the judges' final decision was fair?

To be honest, I still haven't gotten around to watching the fight yet. And I'm definitely planning to today with my neighbor, we're going to go out for a walk with a small group, and then we want to come home and watch my fight again, and then I'll finally evaluate it from the outside. But I'm usually subjective and self-critical. And it's hard for me to say. But I do take the time to read what some of my dedicated fans write to me. I have received many messages saying that the fight was incredibly exciting to watch, and many believe that the judges' final decision went to my opponent only because of what happened in the third round because I was competing on the Canadian's home turf at the time. So I understand that the fight was relatively even. Well, I'll put it this way, when you're fighting, you see it differently from the inside, everything looks different. I didn't really like my fight, but I'm a self-critical person in general, so I expected something else from myself in this fight, in terms of the game plan, I mean, I saw the picture differently.

On the outside, she looked a bit like a machine, well, even more than a bit. She acted that way too, yeah, she kept moving forward, putting on pressure. How did you feel about the fight with her overall?

In my opinion, I should have fought a completely different fight. And of course, I'm not satisfied. And first of all, I guess it's just that the stars didn't align for us . Secondly, of course, the change of team actually played a big role. Of course, without going into details, the team change wasn't entirely my fault. But in general, changing coaches is already not good, because every coach gives their own work, their own technique. I mean, it's clear that every single coach has their own unique coaching style. And when you come to training, you have your own algorithms, your own technique, but when you come to a new coach, he gives you something of his own. And so, now this adjustment happened again because of the new team. Well, it couldn't have been any other way, and I didn't have other options, let's say. I did everything I possibly could. And I think it just had a huge impact, the change in technique, the change in work, because in the French gym we worked in one way, even the striking technique itself. I mean, here in the US they were giving me completely different work. And who came to support you in your corner?

Because a Russian coach could be clearly heard, who was very worried about you. Who was that?

That has always been my manager. I want to say a truly massive thank you to him. He has done so much for me over the years. And I want to say that he's a very good person. And a good professional, a specialist. I'm just very grateful to him. And yes, he... He was more in the role of a translator, he's not exactly a coach. But he is my support.

It's clear that he also deeply cares for you with a great deal of heart. And why didn't you try to wrestle him?

It's a question of the game plan, actually. And here we go back to the coaches' vision, the team change, and so on and so forth. I guess it's actually not that easy to find the right coach who really knows how to reach you.

In one of your recent interviews, you mentioned that you'd been working incredibly hard on that specific area of your game. At some point, you even said you liked it even more than your original discipline of boxing. So, do you plan to keep developing that skill further, and maybe look to use it next time? You know, it's just like what Shara Bullet always says, 'I really like it when people underestimate my wrestling.' Perhaps you'll decide to use your own secret weapon exactly like that in your next fight too?

That's a very old interview from back when I said I really enjoyed wrestling. At that time, I was training with Slava Sorokoletov and Sharap Gitinov. Those two coaches, like, we really connected, and we were doing great together. And they taught wrestling specifically for M M A. Back then, I'd just run to practice with my eyes wide open, like, this is awesome. Plus, the training was very personal, and the work was tailored for M M A. And there's a connection. When you're on the same wavelength as your coach, you go to practice like you're seeing a friend. "Hey, how's it going?" The vibe is right, and it's great. But when you go to a gym, for example, even if it's a good wrestling gym, but... Maybe you don't feel like you're on the same page with everyone. Well, that's actually how it was in some places regarding the wrestling. Plus, there was a bit of a language barrier. But I think you need to improve your wrestling. I'm not doing boxing. I'm doing M M A. It's important. You just need to train with a coach you share the same vibe with. Not just a mood, but a real, solid connection. And you need to focus specifically on work that's for M M A. Because, for instance, what happened at the Parade gym, I was introduced to a very good coach, an M M A coach too, and they convinced me, "Daria, your striking is great, well done, but you need to wrestle. Buy a kimono and go." "Go to the beginners' classes." Beginners are the novices. I was going there for two or three sessions a day, wearing a kimono, starting from scratch. I was exhausted, but I pushed through. We'd start with techniques, and then we'd have sparring sessions. At least five rounds, five minutes each, every practice. So, basically, I was giving one hundred percent, but there wasn't much of a result. And that just confirmed it for me once again. Again, these are just my own personal conclusions. Everyone has their own path and all that. But from now on, I'll only do wrestling specifically for M M A with an M M A wrestling coach.

But overall, regarding the team you have right now, the ones who prepared you for this fight are you staying with them or are you perhaps reconsidering?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I mean, my core team is basically my management team. I look at them as my bosses. They give me guidance, we have conversations, and we communicate. We will see how it goes. Right now... The loss just happened. It's time to think, time to recover, because I'll tell you, I gave three hundred percent in this preparation. I know that in the cage, I did everything I possibly could. It wasn't a great fight, in fact it was a bad fight, but I gave it my absolute all as best as I could, so I really need to think very carefully about the next training camp. where to hold it, who to hold it with, and exactly how to hold it. And we'll think about it. At this moment, the main goal is to rest and recover. And then, we will see what happens.

You were competing on your opponent's home turf. The whole arena was chanting her name. How did you feel in that atmosphere? Because some professional fighters actually like it when absolutely everyone is against them. So, tell me, what was that experience like for you?

Are you serious? Is that really the case?

Yes.

To be completely honest, it was the first time in my life I felt the crowd's energy physically pressing down on me. I am still just in a state of shock. Before the UFC, when I fought in the Ares league, when I walked out, it was silent, no one reached out to me. Here, people were reaching out, yes, and booing, so someone, someone was there for me. In Paris, it was zero, they just booed. And I had my first debut in Ares against Liana Jojua. I walk out, and the whole arena is just booing. However, I felt ready, I thought, great, that's the spirit. But it didn't really seem to bother me back then, and now... Overall, right now, I was also just focused on everything. Yes, in the third round you could definitely feel the entire crowd was rooting against you. It was quite intense. Like... Good for them, they supported their girl well.

Looking at your social media, it seems you arrived at the tournament with Mark Vologdin. Did you two become friends?

Well, let's just say we've known each other since the Secha days, all the way back in twenty twenty. Honestly, back then we were more like just casual acquaintances. We probably, well, you could say we became friends back at the UFC Performance Institute. I arrived here in America in October, and he was here, and we'd sometimes sit and eat together, just talk. We probably became friends even before the fight.

I am curious, how is he feeling after his recent match ended in a draw?

He was deeply distressed and very upset. I even started to get quite concerned about him. He was very upset, of course, he really wanted to win. He's saddened. A very ambitious fighter. Good for him. I don't know, I'm not worried about him. He's young, he has everything ahead of him, it's only his first fight. Of course, it's better to win, but he has three more fights on his contract, he's twenty-six. I believe that he has a bright future ahead of him, so there is no need to worry about his path at all.

One last question. How are you going to take some time to rest and recharge your batteries? What's your recipe?

Under normal circumstances, after my fights I usually prefer a vacation in Thailand, but this time around, everything is going to be different. In just a couple of days, I am planning to take a little trip to a famous American city. Once we arrive, we will take our time to walk around, explore the streets, and enjoy the sights. And then I'll return to Saint Petersburg. I miss my home very much, truly very much. To be honest with you, I often dream of walking slowly down Nevsky Prospect with a coffee in my hand. I have really missed our beautiful architecture deeply. Of course, I missed my mom. I haven't seen her in a very long time. And, of course, I missed my friends very much. It's nice here, but home is home, your homeland is your homeland, and friends are friends, especially long-time ones. I want to see everyone when I get to Saint Petersburg, to catch up, go to a cafe, and take a walk. I've missed Saint Petersburg so much. I just can't wait to fly back there. And I'll have a vacation like that in a couple of weeks from now. Of course, during that time I'll also continue some routine maintenance training to stay in shape. And once that period is over, I'll probably go to another camp and keep training. So in a couple of weeks, I'm not going to quit; I'm going to continue and gradually pick up the pace even more. But right now, the first goal is rest.

Dashenka, thank you for the interview. I wish you a speedy recovery along with your super ointments. May your mood be good, your travels successful, and of course, have a safe trip back home. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.